The thing is no one really knows anything in this modern world. You don't know what links there are between who and who. All I do know, sir, is that earthly power is like a baboon falling upon the back of a leopard. If you have become a man of power and you treated people very badly at one time, as Mugabe did, you can't get off the leopard of power. You do not dare. So what Mugabe is doing, is something that any cruel person would do. He dare not get off power. Because the moment he climbs down the relatives of the people he killed would take vengeance. Especially now that there are courts which try people who commit genocide. He can't get off, he dare not get off - and his people are going to suffer until death closes his eyes.
Why do you think the South African government is supporting him?
I don't know sir. Who knows what politicians think? Who knows what strange things go on behind the scenes. I don't know why Mugabe is being supported, quite frankly sir, I don't want to know. We have got Aids sweeping through the land and we know that Aids is pushed by the dark wind of hunger. I don't understand why our leaders are acting this way. You would think that they would all fight to create as much food for South Africa as they can. They don't. There are African foodstuffs which grow, even when the land is dry. Our mothers used to feed us on those foodstuffs when we were children. Now I see our people's hands are tied. This at a very very critical time in our country's history. I just can't understand why our leaders are acting in this un-African way. Who is behind all of this? Who pulls the strings behind the scenery that we see? It's incredible, it's amazing. It's shocking.
The Middle East
When I look at the middle east, I cry. When I look at what Bush has done, I cry. When I look at what the Jews are doing to the Palestinians and the Palestinians are doing to the Jews, I cry. I do not see any reason why these things should be going on. Really, a man in Africa should not concern himself about what is going on in Palestine or Israel or Iraq or Iran - but there is one terrible thing. Whenever the Christian nations of this world and the Muslim nations of this planet draw swords against each other, it is Africa who sheds tears of blood. It is our people who die. It has been so since the days of the Crusades, right up to now.
Why is that so?
I do not know. Since time immemorial Africa has been the bloodied scapegoat. I wish my words could reach people as they are spoken, because this thing is so serious, so terrible, I don't know why people don't care? People don't seem to care or understand that each death that occurs in the Middle East gives birth to deaths that occur in Africa. I could take you back, back, back to the days of the Crusades and even before. Always it was Africa, black Africa who suffered. When the World Trade Center was attacked for the first time, sir, and when the man named Rachman - a blind Muslim leader - was put in jail, which was the wrong thing to do - what happened in Africa? Several hundred people died in Africa. There were explosions in the embassies of America in East Africa and many nameless black men and women died in those blasts. Recently I saw pictures of young Africans dead in a burnt out house. They died in a hotel explosion in Kenya not so long ago. I ask myself are those deaths necessary? Why should we bleed when Islam and Christianity fight each other? Why should we become the bloodied scapegoats of Islamic and Christian extremism. Why aren't people talking about this thing because it is going to happen now in South Africa. You just watch. The biggest Islamic outrage - perhaps even bigger than the World Trade incident - will occur in South Africa. Believe me. But we can stop it. We can cut the knees from under the extremists.
How? First of all you must realise what is happening in South Africa, sir. Two terrible forces of destruction have been shaping up towards each other for the last 30 years. And as long ago as 10 years ago, I pleaded for the drawing up and the signing of a treaty in South Africa. A treaty signed not between political entities but between the most dangerous entities of our times. Christianity and Islam. The Christians in South Africa must be aware of the danger that they are facing. Even a fool, even a half-educated bush sangoma like myself can see what is going to happen in South Africa. But nobody wants to investigate, nobody wants to think, nobody wants to do?
Things are happening, which I say to God, why God am I the only one who sees? For the last 30 years or so, there has been growing in South Africa a very powerful Born Again Christian movement. We all know that this movement has grown by leaps and bounds. We, who have experienced it first hand, know what an evil and destructive force Born Again Christianity in South Africa is. It destroys black families by the hundred, and nobody says a thing, nobody lifts a finger. The Born Again Christians in South Africa break up hundreds of families, they teach our children not to listen to us, their parents. They are directly behind the burning of so-called witches in the Northern Transvaal. Burning a human being as a witch is not African tradition, sir. Witches were thrown over cliffs, witches were thrown to the crocodiles - but never burnt to death. People don't seem to think that all these witch burnings happen in an area of South Africa where the most religious black people are to be found. There are huge churches in the Northern Transvaal, I don't want to name them, you know them, sir. The people of the Northern Transvaal, the Bapedi people and the Ndebele people up there, are the most fanatically religious black people in our country. Now this Born Again Christian movement is trying to make itself into a political force.
When I was working in the Eastern Cape, when I was creating a tourist attraction to create jobs for our people in the Grahamstown area, I decided we should build a large concrete statue to attract tourists to that desolate and dirt poor area of South Africa. When I built that statue, a 25 foot high concrete monstrosity, there was an amazing reaction to the whole thing. Farmers telephoned my employers and told them that they we should be stopped from building that statue and if we don't they were going to come and pull it down with their tractors. I decided to make that Statue so big and heavy that any tractor that would try to pull it down would have it's work cut out for it. These were serious men, sir. One of the hottest beds of raw racialism in South Africa, is all along the Eastern Cape. Very foul anti-black and anti-white sentiment is to be found there.
Now the Born Again Christian movement is spreading very rapidly through South Africa -as it has been for the last 30 years. To answer this extremism, sir, spreading from the Western Cape this time is Shahia Islam - the force behind Pagad and other organisations like that. Some of the most vicious Islamic extremists are to be found in the Western Cape. And to prove this I would like to remind every one of an incident involving a church in Cape Town where hand grenades, specially doctored with three inch nails, were hurled into the church. Tying hand grenades to nails is a thing that was first done by the PLO, Yasser Arafats gang. It is a special weapon of revenge to Christians. Pasting nails to a hand grenade causes terrible wounds upon the human body. Wounds which even the best surgeon will find it hard to treat and to cure. I could go on and on sir, we need urgently men like Bishop Desmond Tutu and the other great Bishop in the Cape - we need people like Dr Achmet Didad of the Organisation for the Propogation of Islam in South Africa should come together in the name of their common God and to sign an agreement that we will all honour. An agreement saying there will be no fighting in God's name in South Africa.
Look sir what has happened now. I wonder if your young readers think about this? Do you know that all, I repeat, all the bloody Christian/Moslem wars in Africa have been been started by the destruction by one faction of the religious structures of the other. Do you know sir that the war in the Sudan, that has been going on for two decades now, started when Christian Africans attacked a Mosque in Khartoum many years ago. And do you see that in Soweto a few months ago a mosque was deliberately blasted with explosives by people who know that Moslems are bound to retaliate. Do your young readers know, sir, that we have got to spread our culture of forgiveness, for which we black people of South Africa are now world famous, and our culture of tolerance, as quickly as possible.
On being a Seer
This is why I hate myself so much. Why does God show me all this, if it is God. Why can't he give me the power to stop this holocaust. Why? Why don't people listen. You know what one newspaper called me? A doom prophet. I am no doom prophet, I am just a man who sees. I am told stop this thing, but how the hell can I stop it. Who am I anyway, nobody listens to me. And I see my country marching slowly towards the end. Anyone sir, who cares for South Africa and her people. Anyone who realises what we are, where we are standing in history now, can tell you that we need peace in South Africa. South Africa needs to guide herself and guide the whole of Africa along the road of peace. We need peace in Southern Africa because we are standing on the edge of a precipice.
Did you know that the creation of the so-called African Union threatens South Africa with very great danger.
Creating a union in a country involves destroying the sovereignity of different countires and uplifting others. When I was a young man when every person in South Africa was obsessed with waiting for the Germans to come to South Africa so we could fight them - all of us didn't imagine that there would come a time within our lifetime that the very nation we were fighting against would become sovereign and become the leader of the European Union. Who would have thought about that? Today Germany rules Europe. Who would have thought of it - the men who died falling out of the skies in their burning spitfires, the men who died choking on their own blood in the deserts of North Africa, never dreamt that one day Germany and Japan would become so powerful over the whole earth. The creation of the African Union involves the destruction of South Africa as a sovereign nation. For South Africa to fit into the Africa Union it will have to become exactly as France is now. A nation that plays no role really. A nation that has to listen to the Germans. Years ago I warned a friend of mine who was visiting from Lesotho, when the Basuthos were angrily protesting that the recent elections that were held had been rigged. I said, my friend tell your followers not to fight please, the whole thing is a plan to weaken Lesotho as a sovereign nation. This man said, I don't believe that Mutwa, why would anyone do that? I said listen, the Khatsi dam has been built it is going to pour millions of gallons of water into South Africa, but before that dam can fully function, your country has to be weakened economically to increase it's dependence on South Africa. The man couldn't believe me. That was way back. Again another election was held in Lesotho. Someone wants the Basutho people to destroy their own country. Please tell your people not to riot, not to fight. It happened, where is Lesotho today? My friend is now dead, he died of cancer, a man who had become aware of the giant game that is being played by unseen powers in South Africa.
Now we have created the African Union. And there are people who are now spreading an incredible story, a story which can't be true. These people are saying that Uganda's economy has become very good due to the leadership of president Museveni. We are also told that Museveni, by some strange miracle, has reduced the rate of Aids in Uganda. Huh?! Has Museveni become a sangoma now? By what miracle has he reduced the rate of the spreading of Aids. It's a lie - the aim is to build up and boost Museveni as the new leader of the African Union. Who would have thought, sir, that the nations of Europe, great as they once were, would listen to men sitting in a parliament in Belgium, for god's sake, a small small Mickey Mouse country. This is what the great scheme of recreation is aimed at. South Africa has got to go as a powerful sovereign country.
Do you think Thabo Mbeki is working towards that aim?
I don't know, but anyone can see that South Africa doesn't fit into the African Union as a sovereign country. This union has not yet begun to function, when it does men like Mbeki will become irrelevant and raw power will be given to men we don't know, somewhere in central Africa.
Will it be Africans or Europeans?
Sometimes, sir, a black face will be painted on a puppet. You see the puppet but you don't see the men pulling the strings behind it. We are standing at a dramatic time, sir. We are standing at a time where if violence starts in South Africa. Let's say that violence starts in South Africa, let's say the rightwingers - or whoever - achieve their aims of destabilizing South Africa, do you know what's going to happen? We are going to see foreign black soldiers fighting in South Africa, just as we saw Botswana soldiers fighting in Lesotho. It's going to happen, the wheels are in motion and it's going to happen. Why is our country going down the drain through crime? Through Aids? We see rulers doing nothing while our people are swept away. Why?
This is the thing that worries me. Have people no vision? Do people not see? The young people who are said to be our seeds of the future, have they no eyes? It's so easy to wear jeans and dreadlocks and t-shirts and to dance your arses off on a disco stage but why have you lost your vision as a human being?
So I appeal to all people in South Africa, don't waste your time laughing at my words, buy a pair of spectacles thicker than mine and look into your country's future. This year 2003 is going to be a year all of you will remember. Pray that you don't remember it in heartbreak.
Do you know sir that people make me sick. What's wrong with them? There are so many things happening. I told the journalists who were here, please investigate, there are strange things going on in South Africa. But nobody listens. Today in South Africa there are stories which if they were ever to be written would shake this country, but nobody seems to even know that these things are happening, and what they mean and why. That is all I can say sir, do you have another question.